How to make a wedding photographer very, very angry
This week a Craigslist posting made it onto a forum for professional photographers. It has been the cause of a lot of outrage among my peers, and among myself too, which is why I want to take a moment and set the record straight on this.
First here is the Craigslist posting:
“WHY is finding an amazing wedding photographer so difficult? :/
I am a Bride who is getting married this summer and have yet to find a decently priced, exceptional, amazingly talented, fun photographer.
WHY because the word “WEDDING” is involved photographers think they can change you $ 3,000.00 for wedding photos? Oh, because no bride is going to go without so they are going to pay it, because they HAVE to. They are ripping people off for all they have! Why when you want to get married it costs you AT LEAST 15 grand after all is said-and-done? Its such CRAP!! I love all you $ 3,000.00 photographers out there but i think your prices are WACK. All your doing is hanging out at a wedding taking tons of photos and editing them.. and thats owrth 3 GRAND!!! You’re making so much money its crazy. I just wish people would be more realistic. I mean the “average” persons salary for 1 freaking month is somewhere around 3 grand. (Thats making 19$ an hour) So you’re going to take someones WHOLE MONTH paycheck for one flippen day of photos? Just because you CAN!!?????? So that maybe they will not be able to feed themselves or pay any other bills they have, right? It makes me SICK!
I know im speaking for more than just myself right now. Alot of brides out there think the same thing. & I bet all you fancy photographers wont even read this. oh-well.
Maybe there are cheaper photographers that will read this and LOVE to take my photos :)”
Now, initially I stormed around my living room saying a lot of bad words and throwing my daughter’s stuffed animals around in a rage but then I took a moment and thought to myself that this bride has absolutely no idea what I put into a wedding day, so please, bear with me for a moment while I break it down for this bride – and any other brides who think I come home from weddings just to roll around in my enormous pile of dough because it’s time to set the record straight.
First off, this is the investment I made THIS YEAR ALONE (this is not including ANY PAST PURCHASES FROM PAST YEARS, like the two $1600+ lenses I bought last year!) in order to be able to shoot the weddings I have been commissioned to do:
1x Canon 5D Mk II (camera body only) = $2200
1x Canon 7D (camera body only)= $1500
1x Speedlite 580EX II = $480
8xExtra Camera Batteries @$25/ea = $200
2x Battery Grips @ $275/ea = $550
1x Octobank softbox, light stand & swivel adapter (for beautiful soft bridal lighting) = $200 – this was on a stellar sale too.
2x Sandbags to keep said light stand from blowing over = $60
1x 78mm graduated ND filter = $85
Screen protectors for my camera = $25
Emergency car charger for batteries = $15
20 Eneloop Rechargeable Batteries =$65
4x 16GB Sandisk Pro UDMA 6 (you know, so my memory card doesn’t crap out and lose your pictures) = $500
TOTAL COST OF EQUIPMENT INVESTMENT: $5880
That means I need to take on at least two $3000 weddings to make a profit of (get ready for it) A WHOPPING $120.
Now here is the fun part.
Here are the OTHER investments I made this year:
My office, where I meet with my clients, work & do my proofing = $11,200
Magazine advertising for 2013 = $1200
Studio Samples (albums, canvas & prints) = $2500
Telephone Bill (annual)= $1020
Internet Access (annual)= $420
Lens Rentals = $400
Camera Cleaning & Maintenance = $350
Business License = $160
Liability Insurance = $800
Fuel (for the year) $1550
Office Supplies = $300
Outsourcing (editing, book keeping, accountant) = $1800
Commissions paid = $50
Second Shooter Approx $400/wedding
TOTAL COST OF OPERATING MY BUSINESS: $22,150.
That means I need to shoot 8 more weddings at $3000 each to make a profit of: $1850.
And even more fun….!
The average wedding takes me 60 hours to complete from the time I meet my first client to the time they receive their album/DVD/prints.
THIS INCLUDES:
Initial meeting
Telephone/Emails
Location Scouting
Engagement session (2 hrs + 4hrs processing)
Uploading images to gallery
Putting together orders
Shipping/mailing orders out
Location scouting
Final client meeting
Rehearsal Dinner
Wedding
30-40 hrs of processing
Album & card design
In person proofing/ordering
Uploading images to gallery
Putting together orders
Shipping/mailing orders out
Lets just say for shits and giggles I made an annual salary of $20,000.
I would need to shoot at least 11 more weddings to even pay myself what is basically equivalent to minimum wage.
THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE:
Clients I meet with who do not book, or who do not show up.
The cost of my client’s prints, albums, canvases, which are yet to be determined, but I will tell you this. I’ve already spent $800 on client’s purchases and it’s only January 26th.
The workshops & seminars I have paid to attend to ensure my work is at forefront of industry trends (on which I’ve spent at least $600 this year)
The time I spend networking, keeping clients up-to-date via social media
Blogging & SEO work
Magazine & Blog submissions (which are often around $50 per submission)
Now, I work very hard for my clients. I bust my butt to make sure that their wedding day goes off without a hitch. I’m there for them at beck and call and never take more than 24 hours to answer an email. If you are telling me that I don’t deserve to make AT LEAST $3000 a wedding you are basically telling me this:
I deserve to be making way less than you per year
My daughter doesn’t deserve to go to college
I don’t deserve to be able to buy groceries
I don’t deserve to be able to afford clothing or other basic necessities for my family
I don’t deserve to be able to pay basic bills like rent/mortgage, heat/water & electric.
Because if you don’t think that all my hard work and all of my investments are worth $3000 so that you can have a beautiful set of images that will last you the rest of your life you are essentially saying just that.
Now don’t get me wrong I love what I do. I have the best job in the world, but if I shoot less than 21 weddings at $3000 each I am essentially making less than minimum wage. So please before you accuse me of trying to weasel you out of money take a moment and think about it – what are your lifetime memories worth? At they worth paying someone minimum wage, or are they worth a little more?
Lastly, I understand that everyone has a budget. If we didn’t we’d all be spending wildly, but consider this: Your wedding pictures HAVE to last you the rest of your life, they are the only thing you can take from your wedding day to remember the moment you committed your life to the love of your life.
You can take the cheap road and hire someone for $1000 chances are that photographer does not have anywhere near the extent of overhead I have. They probably don’t have professional equipment, they don’t have time set aside to really get to know you or invest themselves in your wedding and they don’t have things like liability insurance to protect you & your images if something goes wrong. Chances are they don’t have the training or the experience to handle any situation and chances are the quality isn’t going to be very good.
I want to work with you. Especially if you want to work with me, and I’m willing to work around your budget. In fact some of my clients this year will attest to that – they have found a package that works for them for less than $3000. But know this, every wedding I shoot for less than that is a direct hit to my wallet, so I can’t take too many low-budget brides on in a year or I’d be paying to shoot weddings.
I believe very strongly that when you invest in your wedding photography you get a heck of a lot more than just some pictures on a disk, I promise you that, and in my opinion that is an investment worth making.
Yours,
Kendra Coupland
Love Tree Photography
You need to start a horror story blog about cheap photographers that ruin weddings and wedding photos because they didn’t have the experience or the proper equipment. Those stories are out there!! If your cheap photographer ruins your wedding and/or your wedding photos, you will be kicking yourself that you didn’t hire a professional. Brides like to learn the hard way it seems. Unfortunately, your wedding day can’t be repeated so if the risk is worth it well….. you were warned.
Well I really appreciate your work Kendra :)
You never hear a bride complaining “we spent so much on our wedding photos.” No… it’s more like “I wish we invested more in our wedding photos.”
Well put Kendra! The problem is that we don’t advertise our expenses (I mean what companies do?) and because it’s a “small” business people don’t see or understand what could possibly justify the cost of what we charge for a wedding. All we can do is educate the client on the value of both what we bring and what we can do for them. If they can’t see that, then a professional wedding photographer is not for them.
Great post and well said Kendra! Photographers are hired and compensated for their talent, their unique perspective, their ability to capture a fleeting moment, their creative way of telling a lovestory and so much more. Images that are amazing and brilliant are priceless! Brides who value their images & buy into a lifetime investment will understand this process and they will book with photographers who value their craft.
Sounds like she needs to pop over to the other section of Craigslist and hire one of the people who will shoot her wedding for $600 – and then she can come crying to you afterwards because her wedding photos are trash or worse yet, NON EXISTANT!
Thank you for taking the time to post this. It’s high time this issue was addressed for both brides and photographers alike. Being a professional photographer is a wonderful job if you want to call it that, however it is also a very expensive career path to go down accompanied with an extensive amount of training, experience and talent that is required to be successful. We put our hearts and souls into our photography because we love it and we love making our clients happy. We also have to make a living and provide for our families just like everybody else.
This has inspired me to do such a breakdown for myself and my business.
Again, thank you for spelling it out as I think it will help provide the insight necessary for people to understand what it actually means to be a professional photographer in today’s world.
I totally agree that wedding photography is worth more than $3000 for a good photographer. Where I get annoyed is when people who don’t know what they are doing price themselves up there with the pro’s.
I had the unfortunate experience of having someone else book the photographer for our 2nd wedding (1 week after the 1st in a different city). They paid $5000 to these people who gave us 40, that’s right 40 pictures on a Costco CD (they only took 210 in total over the whole day) and a video that is in French…. I don’t speak French, and not even shot in HD! They were unprofessional, rude, and dressed horribly. I have horror stories about that day that you wouldn’t even believe. Oh like the video guy stepped on my train while I was walking up the aisle, AND HE DIDNT EVEN EDIT IT OUT OF THE VIDEO!!!
I work with many 1st rate photographers who I would have gladly paid to shoot my wedding, but you can’t forget that there are some MAJOR rip offs out there for people who don’t know what they are looking for, and just trust that the price tag reflects the quality.
Patty,
You are totally right and I I’m really sorry to hear you had a such an awful experience.
I encourage every bride to check your facts before you hire ANY photographer. Check their BBB (better business bureau) records. Ask for references from past brides, check to see if they have any reviews online. Ask them if they have won any awards or had any recognition for their work – is it published anywhere?
$3000 is on the low end of wedding photography here in Vancouver but is by no means a small investment to make. You wouldn’t choose an insurance company without doing a little research because if life didn’t go according to plan you want to know you are covered. Same goes for your wedding photographer. Do your research & find out their backup plan! Get everything in writing too, because if you don’t get what you paid for the only things that will hold up in court are the things on your contract that you got in writing! That contract is there to protect you and your photographer!
On the other hand here, I spent $3000 on photos that do not make me happy at all, especially after seeing countless other wedding photos from the same photorgrapher. There are plenty of photographers that have invested loads into their business, but it doesn`t mean they have the quality to justify charging $3000. I can honestly say I wish I would have shopped around, had I known about the photographer for my godchildren, I would have hired her for sure, at $1200 I would have had beautifully shot and edited pics, not the crap I refuse to even put in an album or on my walls. I would rather have 40 good photos then 1000 crap photos any day.
I totally agree with you. It’s a huge investment for anyone to make so it is super important to do your research, though I have to say if this other photographer is only charging 1200 they would have to shoot a heck of a lot of weddings to be profitable. I know for me $1200 does not even cover the costs I incur from shooting a single 10 hour wedding. When I first started I was charging $750, if only you could have seen the look on my face after our accountant had crunched all of our numbers and I discovered I was running a (painfully large) deficit for the year after all my hard work. It was heart breaking and at that point I had to decide between giving up what I loved doing to find a job I could pay the bills with or find a way to pay the bills doing what I loved. I urge any photographer who is just starting out to really calculate the cost of operating their business BEFORE they set their prices. Don’t devalue your work or take a financial hit because someone says they can’t afford you, it’s just not worth it.
You don’t walk into a high end restaurant and ask how much the lobster cost and request a price based on that. This expense vs fee pissing match is one you won’t win with a “client” like that. So why degrade and humiliate yourself. You have the power here. She needs photography services, you provide a high level of these services. If you are too “expensive” for her, you didn’t need the aggravation anyway. Align yourself with a network of higher end planners who have clients who value your work and you will be better off.
First of all thank you for posting this rebuttal. Not only photographers but musicians also face the same problem. I must say though that the bride seems living above the average wage of ALOT of people including myself in my day job so good for her. People forget that service people have to prepare their equipment, etc, before doing a job. Just like a doctor has to pay for all the equipment in his practice, the musician, artist, photographer etc must also pay for their tools like above.
Keep doing your job and stay true.
What Kendra posted is spot on.
I shoot portrait and nature photos.. and have been asked to, and shot, two weddings for relatives. I will *never* attempt to shoot a wedding again myself. While I did get the shots they wanted, It was a *totally* exhausting experience both times.
Each tied up my time for at least two 40 hour weeks, between the planning, shooting and seemingly never-ending proofing and editing. Not to mention that the stress level doing a wedding shoot is through the roof.
I feel even the average non-wedding photographer has no idea what goes into a wedding shoot. I certainly did not.
To any potential Brides: These PROFESSIONAL wedding photographers earn every penny of the fees they charge, and will get you those Once-in-a-Lifetime shots at the quality You expect and deserve.
I got married 12 years ago and hired a less expensive photographer as we did not have a lot of money. The day went off well and the photographer was very controlling. She asked people to move out of her way to ensure the shot and even told guests to limit their shots as their flash could interfere with hers. In the end, she approached us and said that someone must have messed with her camera because all her shots were overexposed. We had to get copies of pictures from our guests which were limited. I would pay much more than 3,000.00 to go back and re-do it. We ended up with about 12 ceremony shots. Please do not cheap out. you will regret it
Thank you for sharing your story Sue! I’m very sorry to hear you had such an awful experience! Have you considered renewing your vows and having a photographer there to capture it?
You are awesome. Couldn’t have said it better myself. You do get what you pay for and brides should do the research to see if the photographer is credentialed, insured, and has the experience to get the images she wants. This bride wants an “amazing” photographer to do her wedding. Who doesn’t? I think I am on my way to being amazing, but I wasn’t born that way. It takes education and experience to become amazing and I am still working on it. This is a client I would not take on. Could anyone meet her expectations? WOW.
Here is your “let’s save some money” horror story….I have a cheap brother who wanted it done for free, so they asked a family friend who shot as a hobby…..the guy took 56 pictures without changing the film, then realized that he never put film in the camera….lucky for them they were posed pics and were able to be reposed and taken again….what would have happened if this was at the ceremony?
I wish people would understand that our pay is not like their paychecks. Yes they have to pay to get to work but they don’t pay the insurance, building payment, electricity, internet, etc to have that job let alone pay employees & all that goes into that. Just because you own your own business does not mean you are rolling in the dough. Probably the opposite.
We had so many expenses with me moving to the US and could only afford a small wedding. We hired a $1000 photographer, I didn’t really shop around but he had a studio and was a “pro” unfortunately he decided to try out his new digital camera on us and I kid you not I do not have even one image that I’ve printed or even love. It’s heartbreaking. Of course now that I am in the business I realize the error of my ways and would have rather had a backyard wedding with handmade decorations and a $5000 photographer to capture all those amazing details and memories. Since I actually intend on staying married, that was my one shot at it. LOL.
Great post, I hope that many, many brides read this!
and THEN there are the bridezillas!! Tack on 20% for that privilege lol
I absolutely adore you for breaking this down for clients. ADORE.
WELL WRITTEN!
[…] READ THE ENTIRE ARTICLE HERE Share this: […]
Wow, is this ad for real? She must have no concept of what the real world cost. We getting married this spring and the biggest criteria from my better half was to ensure we had a good capture experience for both video and photos. Considering the fact that we’re both working overseas, we decided it wasn’t fair to put this pressure on our photographer friends and give them this project and would much rather them be guests and had to opt for a wedding house in Richmond. We decided to do pre-wedding $5,800, wedding day $3000, and video $3000 through them. Simply because it simplified a lot of things for us. All we were asked to do was to show up at the studio clean and on time.
When we were shooting our Pre-wedding photo sessions in October 2011 it was split up to 2 days with no studio time, because we wanted to capture the beauty of what Vancouver & Victoria had to showcase. Spent the first 6hr evening session going around Vancouver and another whole day session going to Victoria. $5800 sounds like a lot? Well during my whole session, I was thinking to myself how I would never go into this business. The whole time, we had 2 assistants, make up artist, and an award winning photographer. Not that we asked or were looking for an award winning photographer, he just happened to be contracted to the shop and was available.
It’s crazy what lengths that photographers go through to satisfy their clients. Probably not wise to work with someone looking for the lowest bidder. The market place is what it is and if you’ve got the talent, who can blame you for taking the “Better” job.
A Wedding signifies a new beginning and it’s wonderful to be able to share it with your loved ones, but it’s not necessary to have any of those fancy stuff. you can just go to city hall, have a small reception and ask your guests to snap away with their own cameras / phones. Isn’t the most important thing for the couple to be happy with each other, rather than getting all distracted with all the other material stuff? if you don’t have the means, then don’t do it. We certainly shouldn’t question other’s value in what they do, especially when the market place has already priced it in. I wish you photographers all the best in capturing wonderful moments and following your dream.
Thank you for taking the time to share your story!
I agree with everything you say. However, as a pro keyboard player, I’ve never made over $400 at a wedding, and there’s a an equivalent to nearly every expense and investment you list.
Gear, prep, travel, rehearsal, experience, home office, industry networking, admin time, consumables. All adds up.
Because your work inherently has permanence and flatters the clients, I think it’s an easier sell.
(Just jealous)
Hi Brett
I can definitely relate to your frustration. When I first started I was charging $750 for time and a DVD. Imagine my surprise when at the end of the year my accountant told me I was in the hole! It was a major wake up call for me and I had to either find a way to make a profit doing what I loved or find a job that could feed my family. If music is your sole source of income I urge you to take your numbers to an accountant to find out what your total costs of operating are to that you can charge accordingly.
Lastly, photography is a bit difficult to compare to professional musical vendors in than I’m there from the time the bride gets ready until she throws her bouquet and then after the wedding I have 40hrs of editing to complete, whereas most musicians go home at the end of the night and don’t have to spend too much time with the couple after the event is over, and that is mainly where our costs differ.
But I definitely understand where you are coming from!
When it comes to clients like this I just refer them to a few “cheap” photographers that I know of. Along with the comment “you get what you pay for”
It’s called COST OF DOING BUSINESS. Quit whining and either run your business or get out of it. Everyone in business has these expenses, and NO ONE expects to pay for a year’s worth of expenses in only 2 jobs. That’s absurd!
How about the next time you buy a new camera you pay the seller for his cost of the building, his car, his home, his daughter’s wedding, etc.
You really someone to pay for everything you get all at once? Go back to Mommy and Daddy’s house.
Puck,
I don’t think it is so much about whining as it is educating potential brides. I think there are a lot of misconceptions about the wedding industry as a whole, but I can only defend my own place in that industry.
I also believe that there are no dumb questions and that when a bride asks a question they deserve a fair and honest response. This bride in particular asked why photographers charge $3000 because the word wedding is involved and I am simply providing her with an answer. The article isnt intended for anyone else other than brides, clients, and photograpy enthusiasts with the same question.
That IS exactly what you are paying for whenever you shop at any business. the cost of doing business is rolled into the cost of the item being sold, a price is worked out to create a (small) profit for the owner. So yes each time you buy anything those costs come into it, or no business would survive. This isn’t whining, its simply allowing people to see where the money goes …. ie. most of it NOT into the photographers pocket.
I was struck by the honesty of your pnostig
I used to be kind of the same way (I’m ashamed to say), not freaking out about it, just would think, “oh, wow, goodness, it’s just pictures.” (by the way 3000.00 is a deal compared to what I’ve seen) . Until my brother-in-law got into photography and the hours and the time spent on editing is crazy. Now I’m glad to say I’ve seen the light about that particular subject. It’s a good example to look into things before you air your not so positive, bad judgement.
Well put!!
You must have been mad: “… the cause of a lot of outrage … among myself, too …” “AMONG MYSELF”? Multiple-personality disorder brought on be self-centered idiot on Craigslist?
I wonder if the ditz that placed the ad feels similarly about, oh, say, her dentist. I mean, how hard could that job possibly be?
She also needs a good whack upside the head with a heavy bronze plaque that reads, “Your project can (a) look like a million dollars, (b) be cheap like borscht, (c) ready last week. Pick any TWO.” It’s a sucker bet if her wedding photos don’t come back looking as wonderful AS SHE FANTASIZED THEY WOULD BE, we’d hear more moaning about it than we heard when the Israelites wandered 40 years in the desert. The size of her sense of entitlement is the stuff legends are made of.
As for “one flippen’ day of photos … ” clearly it has not occurred to her the amount of time competent photographers spend in postproduction, on little things like tweaking flesh tones to look their best (your acne wasn’t my doing, dear!), crowbarring composition so it will fit the frames she has her heart set on, and dealing with “essential” custom wack-job requests, like retouching out that much-hated aunt, or an ex- who had the nerve to show up or the guest who got drunk and barfed … nevermind. If you think these requests are insane, you should get into wedding video production!
Maybe your website should explain upfront that you are a highly selective artist, who requires all her clients to have IQs with more than two digits.
Ha – to be fair you also left off software, legal expenses, computers, archive and back-up, testing, and a bunch of other things. But most importantly, you left off years of school, years of assisting, and years of experience shooting. That’s the key part – they’re paying for skill, not equipment. It’s a linchpin role, not an hourly technical job.
Sure, Joe Public can buy a $600 camera, Photoshop elements and start shooting for money – but this isn’t worth $3K. No-one’s saying it is. Ad agencies and editorial clients won’t hire that person.
They will hire someone who’s been honing a style for ten years and is passionate about producing quality work (and with quality work to show). Brides (or any retail client) need to have the same standard of judgement, and if they don’t feel like they’re capable of that, then hire a planner who can. Of course they then have to hire a good planner, but if any client is incapable of assessing someone’s ability to do a job via some careful research, I’d imagine they have bigger problems in their life as they’d be working with garbage in everything they do.
You can get good photography for less than $2K, but it depends on what you want. With me, any dip below my rate is compensated by cutting something from production. If you want everything, you pay the everything rate.
I would love to post this on my website and would love your permission to do so.
Erin,
You are more than welcome to link this posting on your blog and website so long as it is correctly credited to Redivivus Photography, thank you for asking!
People are fools, you get what you pay for!! Photography isn’t just point and shoot, and if you think it is then buy yourself some disposable cameras, hand them to a cousin and say “go for it”. When they all turn out with you, the size of a pin, in the dead center of every single shot with their finger partly covering the lense, blurry action shots, and over/under exposed prints; don’t complain. Its an art, being able to see the situation and moment and capturing it in YOUR style. Your developed, personalized, unique style. Artists deserve to be paid for their unique talent.
I say get that 3000bride to shoot a friends wedding, when that bride kills her, she might realize why people pay 3000+
Coming from the perspective of a musician – I actually had a client say to me… how come your lessons are only $50 an hour and you charge more for playing at the wedding? You’re just playing, you’re not really doing anything…..
AHEMMMM. As many have mentioned above me, you’re not just paying for the 20 minutes I’m playing during your ceremony.. I’ve been training to be a professional musician since I was 10 years old and have more than 20 years of performing experience. I’ve spent more time training than some doctors who are responsible for your life. If you want some cheapo who doesn’t know what they’re doing then go ahead… but really. Think about what’s involved for a second before you assume we’re gouging you just because it’s a wedding.
well put, if more people were aware of the time, effort and overhead costs of a photographer, there would be less issues like this. Brides seem to have less problem paying for a designer dress, understandably, because they can see touch and feel the difference of the quality. with photos they unfortunately won’t see that quality difference until its too late to get their day back :(
Kendra, I wanted to thank you for putting it so well! I enjoyed reading your post. As a wedding photographer I too hear some brides from time to time make similar remarks without really knowing why the cost is what it is and you broke it down so well! Wish you all the best!